Kaczyński: if we don’t defend our values we’ll end up like Ireland

The leader of the ruling Law and Justice (PiS) has said that unless he and his party continue to opposed culturally alien novelties from the west Poland could end up being like Ireland, a country once Catholic, now considered by Jarosław Kaczyński as being a “Catholic desert with LGBT ideology out of control”.

A significant part of Mr Kaczyński’s interview with the weekly “Sieci” was taken up with the disputes taking place within the ruling block over axiomatic issues. “Solidarity Poland” and its leader, the justice minister Zbigniew Ziobro, have hinted that PiS as a whole is not being either principled or radical enough over fighting ‘LGBT ideology’ or propagating traditional values.

Mr Kaczyński said that he may sometimes disagree with “Solidarity Poland” over tactics, but not over the need to defend traditional values. He argued that there was a need to put up a strong defence of these values, otherwise Poland could end up like Ireland.

In Jarosław Kaczyński’s opinion Ireland was until recently a country so Catholioc that it made Poland look like a heathen place. But today “it’s a Catholic desert with LGBT ideology totally out of control”.

The PiS leader argues that the way to combat ideas which he considers hostile to traditional civilisation and Polish traditions should mainly be by persuasion and by pushing back against political correctness. But he does not rule out, where necessary, legal measures without specifying what they might be.

Mr Kaczyński argues that it is in schools where the first line of defence for “our civilization” must be drawn. He says he is not arguing for any form of censorship as that is counterproductive. But he does see the need for the state to come down firmly in favour of traditional values in what is taught in schools. Children must be taught the difference between right and wrong, he feels.

The PiS leader argues that the problem is that there are strong commercial interests which want a society “without any identity”, a “collection of consumers” who will “supply money and power”. For such interests all structures based on identity such as nation states and church congregations are an “obstacle” said Mr Kaczyński.

Mr Kaczyński confirmed that he is well aware of the fact that the provocations being organised by LGBT activists will be used in attempts to limit EU funding for Poland. This is because the charge of homophobia or transphobia is, in European circles “tantamount to being accused of Nazism”. But PiS was only defending traditional values and would have nothing to do with any totalitarian ideology, concluded Mr Kaczyński.

No coalition with PSL and no enthusiasm over the return of Mr Gowin

In his wide-ranging interview Mr Kaczyński confirmed that he had spoken to the leader of the Polish People’s Party (PSL) Władysław Kosiniak-Kamysz about a government coalition but he assesses the PSL leader to be “definitely on the other side” (committed to remaining in opposition). But he did say that some MPs in the PSL dominated “Polish Coalition” parliamentary caucus were more amenable to working with PiS. However the number of such MPs (half a dozen from the “Kukiz’15” movement led by the rock musician Paweł Kukiz) would not be a significant enough addition for Mr Kaczyński to be able to contemplate swapping them for either “Agreement” (which has 18 MPs) or “Solidarity Poland” (20 MPs) when Mr Kaczyński’s parliamentary majority is relatively small (235 out of 460 MPs).

Mr Kaczyński voiced his doubts about the feasibility and desirability of the leader of the smaller partner “Agreement” party Jarosław Gowin returning to the government. The PiS leader felt that while such a return may be welcome for political reasons, reactions within the PiS parliamentary caucus to Mr Gowin returning would be unfavourable as, according to Mr Kaczyński, Mr Gowin had crossed a line in opposing the holding the presidential election in May, which should not have been crossed. In reminding about what he considers to be past disloyalty Mr Kaczyński is sending the “Agreement” party a message to think again over nominating Mr Gowin.